MyDD :: No mention of consulting with commanders in Obama's website

No mention of consulting with commanders in Obama's website

by kingsbridge77, Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 12:28:13 AM EST

The section of Obama's website titled "Bringing Our Troops Home" reads thusly:

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Why is it important to highlight the keyword "will"? Simple logic.

If it were true that Obama had always been willing to and open about consulting with generals on the ground before taking a stance on Iraq, then he would have used the word "might", since it would be dishonest to promise immediate withdrawal without first asking said commanders.

I "might" remove our troops". I "might" remove 1 or 2 brigates, etc. Why? Because if it all depends on the commanders on the field, then nothing "will" happen for sure yet.

One friend tries to prove to me that barackobama.com does cite an instance where Obama speaks about consulting with these chiefs, but this is false, as I explain below:

Barack Obama would immediately begin redeploying American troops from Iraq. The withdrawal would be strategic and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government.

This quote says NOTHING about consulting with military commanders. It simply states the obvious fact that the immediate redeployment would be directed by those who are paid to direct.

There is a big difference between telling someone to direct, and consulting with that person about the best course of action.

It would not be the same, for instance, for George W. Bush to ask Donald Rumsfeld to direct torture against terrorism suspect, as opposed to consulting with Rumsfeld, who may or may not approve of the action.

Figuring this out is no brain surgery. In the primaries, liberals are the main target. During general election season, moderates and some conservatives are the price, as they constitute a large segment of voters. Obama, a typical politician, has acted accordingly.

Tags: Barack Obama (all tags)

Permalink :: 22 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: No mention (2.00 / 1)

Obama, a typical politician, has acted accordingly

Apart from debating the " is" is or "Might" and "will". I like to know when we crossed that threshold to now name Obama a typical politican?

If we have and I missed that memo, I would like to log a protest. That's whom I choose this primary.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 12:42:17 AM EST

Re: No mention (2.00 / 1)

From Obama's website and unless he changes that stance for which I voted for him. He is not a typical politican. He is cyrstal clear -Dec 2009 all combat troops out.

Obama would immediately begin to pull out troops engaged in combat operations at a pace of one or two brigades every month, to be completed by the end of next year. He would call for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, convened with the United Nations, which would not adjourn until Iraq's leaders reach a new accord on reconciliation. He would use presidential leadership to surge our diplomacy with all of the nations of the region on behalf of a new regional security compact. And he would take immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster in Iraq, and to hold accountable any perpetrators of potential war crimes.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:07:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in Ob (none / 0)

Like the rest of the Democrats, Obama may be all over the place on Iraq, but I ask only one simple thing. Please, not another President who hides behind the generals when it comes to exercising his Commander-in-Chief authority. "I'm just following General Petraeus' recommendation! This is General Petraeus' plan! How dare you disagree with General Petraeus' plan?" God, no more.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 12:57:13 AM EST

Well of course (none / 0)

like Bush, Obama will put generals in charge who agree with him and fire..er...give early retirement to....those who do not.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 02:55:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in Ob (2.00 / 3)

You fail, as always.

http://mediamatters.org/items/2008070300 14

In a just world, you would've been banned ten times over by now.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:03:03 AM EST

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in Ob (2.00 / 1)

Or, if you want it directly from his website:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/Ir aqFactSheet.pdf

"Barack Obama would immediately begin redeploying American troops from Iraq. The withdrawal would be strategic and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government."

But hey, this diary should still be good for some McPoints even though it has no basis in fact.

John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way

by bosdcla14 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 05:48:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders (2.00 / 2)

I know!

It's so STUPID to have a President who takes actual details into consideration before making a big decision. I much prefer one who will "stay the course" despite operational realities.

We should just keep Bush, eh?

</snark>

Seriously, you elect a President based on how they will deal with future situations, not because of their current platforms. Their current platform should inform you as to their judgment and opinions.

As things stand, Obama's position is clear, and has been consistant. Can you predict how Iraq will be in 6 months?

by Falsehood on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:07:38 AM EST

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders (1.50 / 2)

A"s things stand, Obama's position is clear, and has been consistant. Can you predict how Iraq will be in 6 months?"

Rummy and you agree.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:09:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders (none / 0)

That my argument has been also said by the SecDef who got us into this mess does not invalidate it.

It'd be great if you could respond on the merits, instead of attacking me via comparison.

by Falsehood on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:24:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders (2.00 / 2)

I apologize, I'm not attacking you. It was a statement, unadulterated and hopefully powerful in its simple words. Is there any falsehood in my written words ?

One could easily replace rummy with McCain, Bush and any character from the republican party.

We know those are the very same sentiments pushed from the mouths of the opposition for years.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 11:32:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders (none / 0)

That they come from your opposition doesn't make them invalid.

I will never vote for a President who commits himself to policies 6 month out from being able to apply them, without regard for what could happen in those 6 months. Obama's position is the responsible one.

We can be pretty sure there won't be massive changes in the area of healthcare. Iraq is justifiably different.

by Falsehood on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders (2.00 / 1)

We've got to stop pretending that things aren't different in Iraq right now. It is the 600 lb. elephant in the room because nobody wants to admit that after the surge, we have seen relatively positive results, better than was originally hoped. This is mostly due to Sunnis deciding that they wanted no part of Al Qaeda in their community and Al-Sadr calling a cease-fire.

The surge was not the success. Had we not seen the Anbar Awakening, we'd be still seeing a great deal of fighting. And that series of events was set into motion before we decided to put more troops in. And McCain called for a much larger surge than Bush provided for exactly that reason.

But regardless, if Obama kept up the talk of impending doom, he would be slaughtered.

"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."

by vcalzone on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:28:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders (none / 0)

That said, Obama cannot say what I just said. I have the luxury of not having to answer for refusing to give our troops credit for the results. Obama does not.

"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."

by vcalzone on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:35:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's where (2.00 / 1)

Obama isn't like every other politician. He's no longer making promises that he may not be able to deliver.

I wonder how many here will vote for the candidate who says this;

"My desire is to end the war in Iraq, but I don't know how I'm going to do that until I am President and I see what the situation in the country is. I can't tell you how I plan to get us out until January, 2009 at the earliest."

or how about the guy who says;

"I don't know how to lower your gas prices. Taxing the oil companies doesn't work, drilling for more oil doesn't work, maybe if I just ban you from buying cars that get less than 28 mpg on the highway. Maybe I make it illegal to drive between two distances less than one mile apart from each other. With no gas guzzlers on the highways and no one travelling short distances, gas demand will lessen." (It will, you know)

Nobody will EVER vote for that guy.

I should make this into a diary.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 03:02:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's where (none / 0)

I thought the same thing the other day, and yes you should.

"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."

by vcalzone on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 04:01:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Another silly comparison. (2.00 / 3)

Rummy says milk is good for you, Obama says milk is good for you. OMG! Obama is just like Rummy.

Bush has big ear, Obama has big ears. OMG! Obama is just like Bush.

Hitler wore two shoes, Obama wears two shoes. And get this! The ones on their left feet are different than the ones on their right feet. Yes, I kid you not. Obama is just like Hitler!

That One is the Right One for 2008.

by GFORD on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 02:27:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The difference is in chain of command (2.00 / 2)

Consulting does not mean requesting what to do next. He consults with the general on how to accomplish an overall strategy. If that strategy is a withdrawal from Iraq and refocus on Afghanistan, then that is what his commander will tell him to do.

What, did you think that Bush went through like 5 generals because he was listening to them?

"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."

by vcalzone on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:08:45 AM EST

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in (none / 0)

It's a fine rhetorical line that you seek to draw; "direct" also implies some degree of autonomy and discretion.

by rfahey22 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:10:39 AM EST

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in Ob (none / 0)

If anyone wants to see why progressives hardly ever actually gets anything done just needs to read this website. The amount of cannibalism going on right now is disgusting. Why actually try to get the guy that supports many of our ideals elected when we can destroy any hope of that with petty and self-centered revenge tours.

by Sarcastro on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 02:24:46 AM EST

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in Ob (none / 0)

It's not revenge.

First off, google phrases like "Hillary will do anything to win" and you can see lots of diarists who must be feeling pangs now (or are in total denial).

I never believed Hillary would do anything to win; she took what I thought were reasonable, moderate progressive stances. I did admire Obama's plan to get out of Iraq on a firm schedule, but it was the only advantage I saw in him. Now that's gone, and all we have is someone whose politics really are a great unknown.

I hope they hold a roll call in Denver.

by strongerthandirt on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 09:17:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in Ob (none / 0)

She would be pandering in exactly the same way if she had won. And there will be a roll call. Obama will win it.

by conspiracy on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:23:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No mention of consulting with commanders in Ob (none / 0)

How is Obama's plan for getting out of Iraq different then it was during the primary? Notice, Rove or another neocon claiming his plan has changed is not evidence that the plan has actually changed.

by Sarcastro on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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